Dye Job - Interviews with the UK's leading hair experts

DYE JOB with Brad Baker | Recovery, Reinvention & Resilience

• Sophie Maccorquodale

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0:00 | 39:30

Brad Baker has built a career defined by creativity, curiosity and a willingness to evolve.
From learning the fundamentals at Toni & Guy to embracing creative freedom at Bleach London, Brad established himself as one of Britain's most respected creative colourists. Editorial work, education and fashion have all played significant roles in his career, but this conversation reveals the experiences that shaped the person behind the profession.
Brad reflects with remarkable honesty on grief, addiction and recovery, describing how hairdressing gave him purpose at a time when he needed it most. Rather than allowing difficult experiences to define him, he explains how they reshaped his understanding of creativity, confidence and success. Throughout the conversation he speaks openly about anxiety, self-belief and the importance of finding a community where he could truly be himself.
One of the most compelling parts of the episode explores Brad's work with non-surgical hair replacement systems. What began as another chapter in his career has become one of its most rewarding. For Brad, this work is about far more than replacing hair. It is about restoring confidence, identity and self-belief for people experiencing hair loss, demonstrating that the impact of hairdressing often extends far beyond appearance.
Honest, insightful and deeply human, this episode is a conversation about resilience, reinvention and the privilege of helping people feel more like themselves. It is also a reminder that while creativity may build a career, purpose is what gives it lasting meaning.

Introduction

SPEAKER_00

Hello, welcome to Die Job. I'm Sophie, and today I have the fabulous Brad Baker.

SPEAKER_01

Hi.

SPEAKER_00

So Brad started his career at 2004 in Tony and Guy, Victoria, moving in the first wave of Bleach London.

SPEAKER_01

I learned the fundamentals at Tony and Guy, and then I broke all the rules at Bleach London.

SPEAKER_00

A long K session work with clients like Gucci, LVMH. More, more, more. You were doing loads weren't you. Known for his creative colour, his stencil work, and generally being one of the nicest guys in the hairdressing industry.

SPEAKER_01

So sweet.

SPEAKER_00

And in 2023, your direction changed a little bit to do non-surgical hair replacement systems, which I'm desperate to find out more later on. So welcome, Brad!

SPEAKER_01

Hey, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_00

Oh well, I'm very excited. I'm just gonna

Growing up, loss and discovering hairdressing.

SPEAKER_00

start because nobody wants to listen to me. It's about you. What version of yourself walked into hairdressing? And how would you describe yourself now?

SPEAKER_01

It was a weird time for me because basically I came out when I was 18, my dad passed when I was 18, and then I went into hairdressing when I was 19. So I was at college, I dropped out, and I just wanted to change in direction. I used to get my hair done at Tony and Guy in Wimbledon, and my friend said, Why don't you try hairdressing? So I walked in and instantly I felt like I belonged. I I needed somewhere that was queer and creative, and I found all of that in hairdressing. But also I was dealing with a lot of bereavement and drug issues. I recently found the gay scene and fire and voxel. So part of me was like really excited to start this new journey, and then part of me was a bit traumated. So it was a real catch-22. Like I was really excited, but also at the same time, really kind of in my head and dealing with things that I just didn't know how to deal with. The part the version of me now is I'm coming up to a year sober, and I'm way more like confident in myself. I think I've dealt with a lot of those abandonment, not feeling good enough, feeling a bit defected, which I had at the beginning of my career. I was always a bit nervous that I wasn't doing good enough, or clients didn't like their hair, whereas now all of that anxiety is kind of dissipated a bit, and I feel yeah, I'm just way more confident. And I think that comes with experience, like learning your craft. But yeah, the version of me was nervous, excited, and broken, but now I'm just more excited and sort of fixed.

SPEAKER_00

Fab. That's how that going.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's yeah, it's um yeah, 25 years, Jesus.

SPEAKER_00

And would you still describe yourself as a hair colourist?

SPEAKER_01

Uh so traditionally I am on paper a hair colourist, that's my trade. But I'd kind of describe myself more as a hair artist. Um, I feel like given the opportunity to create uh an avant-garde look, I'd I'm quite good at. Like it's the creative, the creative juices are there, but obviously, because of my career, they were mainly streamlined into hair colour. But given a pair of scissors or some tongues, you can I feel like I could create anything really.

SPEAKER_00

And you've got your own little space now, haven't you? That's like, tell me a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_01

So I'm situated between Borough and Southwark. It's a co-working warehouse space. Uh there's a few different hair artists in there, which are uh braiders and uh girl that I used to work with at Bleach London Beth is located in there. So we've got like a little community thing going on. And it's just a really nice, it's a private room, two chairs, the basin, which is perfect for me, and I do hair colour there, but I also do hair systems. So I needed a private space for guys to feel comfortable enough to like remove their system and not be sort of ogled at. Um so yeah, it's the perfect location. It's five minutes up the road from my flat, and yeah, the perfect little little space for me to be creative in.

SPEAKER_00

Also, I do think I went to a barber's with my son, and that was a two-chair co-working space. It seems like lots of hairdressers are going towards that. Like you've had bigger businesses, haven't you? And the idea that business rates, responsibility, not the flexibility to do what you want, maybe for creatives, it's not where you you're going. Do you agree? Or yeah, a hundred.

SPEAKER_01

I think like definitely like pre-COVID was all about salon work. Post-COVID, people went slightly more self-employed in that direction. Um, I love having my space because I

Toni & Guy, Bleach London and finding a creative identity.

SPEAKER_01

like to be in control of my own destiny, I like to get in really super early or leave super late. Like I was doing a hair system until like 1am the other week. So I like that flexibility. Um, I also do miss the security of being employed. And I miss that community vibe as well. That's what I really like. Loved. I remember the first day that I was in Tony and Guy, I got there really early. I was sweeping, and I could hear like click clack-click clack-click clack coming up the stairs. And it was all the girls from the night, they'd all been out the night before. It was very coyote ugly. It was they were all putting their doing their hair, putting their makeup on, and I was just like sweeping in the background, like watching them. And I do miss that sense of like community, like that you can the that vibe that you have being self-employed and having my own space, it's you do feel a little bit isolated. So I can see the benefits in both having your own little space or being part of a bigger salon picture.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think you've got to be really confident to have your own little space because I know for me who's grown up in big salon chains, the idea that you've got lots of people. So if somebody's if you're not quite sure about a consultation, you can get somebody else over. When you're on your own, it's like it's all on you. There's nobody to do it. But for you when you're feeling a bit shit.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I like. I loved I miss that as well, like being at the colour, um, the colour station mixing up, and you're like, do you reckon this? And then someone having a little peek at the oh, actually, I'd maybe add a bit of that in. And it's just nice to like soundboard your ideas off of. And other people use certain, they have like their own formulas that they love, and it's nice just to kind of go backwards and forwards and share um education and share like what you what's your favourite product, what's your favourite formula. When you're on your own, I'm I'm a bit in my head all the time, so I'll be like mixing up and I'm like, in my head, I'm like, oh my god, is this the right formula? Is this right? It would be nice just to like soundboard off of somebody.

SPEAKER_00

Completely, completely. Because you soundboard and then you do exactly what you're gonna do. You just don't, you know, we all do it. Like, what would you do on this?

SPEAKER_01

And then you'd be like, Yeah, you're like, thanks for that. I'll just continue to do what I was gonna do.

SPEAKER_00

But tell me about like non-surgical hair replacement systems, because it's kind of major what you're doing, right?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I started I basically wore one in 2014. But I was heavily I was working at Bleach London then and I was heavily like clubbing. Um so it didn't really work for me. It felt like it sweated off quite quickly. Um, that would be like being in a sweat box in Vauxhall. Um, but yeah, it just so I only wore it for like six months, I think, and then had like a mini breakdown at Pride because in 2022 I was watching all of these, like there was like loads of kids wearing wigs and loads of people wearing wigs, and they were just living their best life, and I was there bald and like pissed off. Also, can I say that? Yeah, um, yeah, I was like bald and kind of in my head, and I was just like, Do you know what? Sod it, I'm gonna give it another go. But this time round, I went direct to the supplier, um, pinpointed who I wanted to get them from, uh, did all that my own colour matching, got my own people to install it, whereas before I went to a clinic and I wasn't happy with the result. Um, so I kind of yeah, just fell back into wearing them, and I I'm not stuck in them like some people, they won't be seen out of them. I can wear my hair bald, like so. Underneath this, I've got no weight line, it's just completely skin-head. So I can take this off and be like my skin ed version. So I just love the versatility of it. It's for me, it's like a hair hat. So I kind of stumbled into it, but I've used my past experience as a wig specialist colourist um that I've done in session to like manipulate them and make them feel like more trendy, like kind of bringing a trendy vibe to the toupee.

SPEAKER_00

Do you mind me asking? This is really basic of me, and I'm apologise. Is there like a mesh underneath?

SPEAKER_01

So you can get three, there's three main bases. So you've got a skin, which is like a plastic, yeah, which and then the hairs are like implanted in. You've got a lace, which is a lace base, it's pure lace, and they're like um uh knotted in, and then you've got a hybrid which will have maybe a bit of both. So this is a hybrid, so it's got plastic going around the perimeter, a lace hair front, and then lace in the middle. Um, so it's breathab it's got the breathability of having the lace, but then it's got some security of having that skin that sticks to the the tape, like it anchors the hair uh anchors the system onto the scalp better. What's sticking this to my scalp is tape.

SPEAKER_00

And do you also do it for women with frontal?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so we've I mean, so I we do have a few frontal clients, and we've also had clients where I've got a wig, so she had an accident and ended up with two like ball patches sort of around the the radial just behind

Editorial work, fashion and developing a career in colour.

SPEAKER_01

the ears. So we took a wig, colour match that wig, cut out the templates and put that in, so then she ended up filling those gaps. So it's kind of you can do it with wigs, you can do it with hair systems. Sis the difference between a wig and a system is traditionally a wig you would take off. Maybe like you you lay the hairline down, but everything else can kind of be removed. Whereas a system is strategically stuck to like a boarding area of the scalp, so this is like stuck down and it ain't gonna come off.

SPEAKER_00

And how long will it last?

SPEAKER_01

How long so it depends on your body chemistry? I'm quite oily and sweaty, so I break down the adhesive quicker. Uh so they don't last for me. But to be honest, I've got like loads of them, so I might be blonde one week, I might be permed the next week. I like to change it up and create different characters. Um, but they can they can stay anywhere from two to four weeks attached to the scalp. Obviously, the longer they're attached, the more grimy it is under there. So I like to get in, have like a bit of a a spa day on a Sunday, cleanse, tone, do all of that. Um, so yeah, some people like to leave it for the four weeks. Some people I know remove it every couple of days and retape it. They just like the security of knowing that it's like fresh and stuck. So anywhere from a few days to four weeks.

unknown

Fab.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. That's really interesting. So when you go into your space, is there like what does it look like? Have you got hair everywhere? Amazing wigs.

SPEAKER_01

So it's quite industrial, it's all like industrial kind of warehousey vibe. But yeah, there's a wig wall with like heads and all different wigs coming off. I need I want to get way more of those like little mannequin heads and just have like untold, like you know, like hoarder amounts of wigs, but maybe them hanging off of like the ceiling, like do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00

You're quite loved by a lot of women who wear good colour, right? Like I always notice you're doing things on Instagram with Michelle Fassage. Yes, she loves you, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

She's one of my good Judies. She um I started doing her basically after COVID. I had to shut down the business that I'd opened, so I'd opened the co-working space in Common Garden. Opened it on like the 11th of March. By the 19th of March, we were in the first lockdown. We'd just got back from Fashion Week, opened up the business, and then I'd started hearing about all of this COVID corona, and I just I didn't know what it was, and then before I knew it, it was like a wave, it just shut everything down. So I just did a round robin to all of the hair, lead hair people that I knew, and Craig got back to me and was like, you need to hook her up. I was in awe because I'm a drug race like super fan, and so I was like nervous AF, and um, yeah, she was so lovely, and I've been doing it since.

SPEAKER_00

But you sort of you do barrier cream that front bit out.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so we've actually she's not silver anymore, so she's not black and silver, she's black and copper. The back's still black, but the front is like a we've changed it to like a fiery copper.

SPEAKER_00

Fabulous, and that's Craig. Sorry, you just said Craig Marsden. Oh, fab.

SPEAKER_01

And he looks after Yeah, so he's Michelle's hair artist, and I get brought in to do the colour.

SPEAKER_00

That's quite interesting. So you just sent messages, I'm looking for new opportunities, and good on you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I just thought let's like strike while the iron's heart, got my spreadsheet out, listed everyone that I knew, uh, Instagram handles, what they are known for, and just yeah, went through the list and just tried my luck with everybody. I was a bit of a colour floosy.

SPEAKER_00

But I tell you who you do as well, who I love her hair doctoralis.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, I literally did her yesterday. Yeah. I've been so she was actually one of my first, almost one of my first clients when I vardered at Tony and Guy Soho. Really?

SPEAKER_00

You've been doing her hair that long?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so she just finished vardering. It was almost like you know, like when you're sitting, you're reading a magazine, you're waiting for a client to come through the door. Client came through the door, I need a colourist. So it was like my first kind of real creative thing out of the box, I guess.

SPEAKER_00

And was it the black?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that I didn't create that, that was previously there, but I guess I perfected it. Because up until then it were just full head highlights, one bleach foil, one magi blonde foil. It was like, yeah, it was like a 901S and a bleach foil, and this was the first thing where it was like, right, you have to get creative, and you could stretch your legs and do what you need to do to create the look, and it was it was a really good one.

SPEAKER_00

But also, that's quite a testament that she's still doing her.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, literally, like I varted in 2007, so it'll be like 19 years.

SPEAKER_00

And that lady knows a lot about beauty, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And it's like an iconic look as well.

SPEAKER_00

It's so iconic, it's fabulous. And what would you say your career highlight's been, Brian?

SPEAKER_01

There's been like loads

Grief, addiction, sobriety and rebuilding confidence.

SPEAKER_01

of highlights, like just getting to work with Paul and getting to travel the world, doing a Gucci campaign in Shibuya Crossing, like shutting down that. That was it. There's been like loads, but I think my ultimate highlight would be walking. So me and my ex were going out in uh Soho, and we'd got the Victoria line to Oxford Circus, and having the Kate Moss pink wig, Mark Jacobs took over the whole of Oxford Circus. So every tunnel I walked down, every billboard was my work, and that was iconic. It like it just I was beaming with joy.

SPEAKER_00

It was so good that pin. Yeah, it was such the perfect pink.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and they literally they took the whole of Oxford Circus was taken over by it. So every corridor you walk down, every escalator you were on, every platform you were on, it was just everywhere, and it was just that was iconic.

unknown

Fab.

SPEAKER_00

And what do you say low light? What would you say?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, to be honest, there has been a fair few.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, you're so honest, you've got your heart pretty on your sleeve, bro.

SPEAKER_01

I think the low light probably would have been caused by my own thing. It would have been those days where I'd gone out all night, hadn't slept, and then gone into work and had those really stressful days where I'd like beat myself up and you know, let me just feel like burnt out and exhausted. But it was to do with my own my own things that I was dealing with. Like those days would have been great if I just wasn't in my head or had a drug abuse problem. So it was um, yeah, there's been a fair few lowlights, um, but again, they were mainly caused by my own actions.

SPEAKER_00

So you've been quite open about your sort of drug abuse and your steps to sobriety. Could you tell me a little bit about like when was the moment that you were like, shit, I got a problem I need to sort it?

SPEAKER_01

To be honest, I've been aware of my issues from day dot. I've got a massive addictive personality, so now I'm addicted to the gym. Like I've just swapped one addiction for another kind of thing. I guess it's a healthy addiction. Um, but I've always had that addictive quality. Once I get going, I just want to keep going. I'm like all or nothing. So I've always known it's been there. It primarily became an issue when me and my ex broke up and I moved into my own flat. I didn't have that voice of sensibility that would maybe reframe me from going crazy. Um he was always more of a let's let's stop now, kind of we've had enough. Whereas I'm like, more, more, more. Um so being left to my own devices, that's when I became more aware of how much of an issue it was. I think I'd like convince myself, I think as hairdressers, you're expected to be that partier, you're expect it's almost you're almost given like a bit of an easier time being a bit more messy because it's expected. So I yeah, I've I've always always been a bit messy, always loved partying, always would be like on the podium taking my top off, and part of myself had I'd convinced myself that it was nor I was using normally, I hadn't didn't have an issue. It was it wasn't under control, it was regular like it was normal amounts. Um, but that soon snowboard snowballed when I moved into my own flat and was single because no one was keeping a tab of me. I was allowing myself to just get further and further into it. Um it became an issue my what what sent me sober was I'd met a guy on a gay dating app and he told me straight outright that I wasn't good looking enough. And I mean to be fair, looking back, I was a year into using drugs heavily, I wasn't looking after myself. I thought I was gorgeous, but probably wasn't. That was the drugs. Uh so yeah, he told me I wasn't good looking enough, and I basically went home and used continuously for five days. I just partied and partied and partied, and I ended up in hospital. So I ended up with uh it was it's called a thunderclap headache, so it came on really quickly. It was like a pressure popped in my head, and for that a week passed, and I'd convinced myself I'd done some real damage. My friend who works in healthcare said go and get it checked out. So I eventually went and got checked out a week later. At this point, I'd been a week sober. Um, it was all fine. They did the MRI, they did test lumbar injection, everything

Hair replacement systems and helping people regain confidence.

SPEAKER_01

came back fine. It was just severe dehydration. So at that point, I was like, why am I allowing guys and other people's kind of opinions of me pushed me to that point of where I'm self-destructing? So I just at that point just took back control and was just like, I'm not touching alcohol or drugs again.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm coming up to a year sober.

SPEAKER_00

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was just I again like from I'd used drugs and weed as a teen, then when my dad passed, it evolved into more heavy party drugs. Um, being on the scene and just trying to escape and like I was at a time of sort of finding myself anyway, which is what a lot of people do, but when you throw bereavement into that, it can get a little bit dark and twisted. So it wasn't like me exploring and finding myself, it was me like numbing myself. Um, and that I never really tackled until I went sober last year. Like I've I've been seeing a therapist, and yeah, so it's it's been a massive life journey of ups and downs, but I would I would recommend anybody to like maybe go a bit sober curious, even if they just need to like find have a break from what they're doing, find who they are again, because I lost myself massively. I just got lost in the void and I've found myself again.

SPEAKER_00

And it's quite exciting that you have found yourself in such a positive way, right?

SPEAKER_01

I feel like you have to like I could look at it very negatively, and sometimes I do get into that headspace like I spent a hell of a lot of money last year when I was in my Days and like all of those little things, they always creep back in and they haunt me a little bit. But I just have to you just have to then spin that on its head and be positive. Otherwise, if I get into that space where I'm self-critical, it will just snowball and I'll just get deeper and deeper. So I've always got to just turn that frown upside down and just carry on.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Keep going to the gym. Yeah. Keep lifting.

SPEAKER_01

Keep eating.

SPEAKER_00

Protein.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Protein. Yeah. And may I ask what what drugs you were using, or do you So I was using pretty much everything, but my drug of choice was GHB. Right, right. Yeah. It was, I think, because it gets it's a a party drug and it gets you horny, and where I was single, and I felt like I had to be out sewing my oats and being single, but I wasn't necessarily feeling it. It gets you to that place. But I became towards the end of it, I was using hourly. So I was putting myself to sleep with GHB, which knocks you out by doing a big dose, and then I would wake up and do another shot to get myself like ready for the day. It was just it was messy, it was messy boots.

SPEAKER_00

Wow. And did you do the sort of NAAA?

SPEAKER_01

No, I think the thing is with me, when I'm in self-destruct mode, I can take myself there, but when something as like eye-opening it as going to the hospital and having your mortality like slapped around your face, it shocked me enough into the headspace where I'm like, right, that's it now, clean living. Like I and again, like what I I wanted to go sober for a while, but I just I think the story that I told myself was I'm a I'm an addict, so I just didn't listen to anything. I and then that was enough to like shock me into going sober. I'd also previously gone to Grand Canaria with my friend and shared a room with him who is sober, and he was aware of my drug habits because as soon as I landed, I met the dealer and whatnot. Um, so that was my first eye-opening experience, which was seeing his disgust for the situation. Like he was like, Oh, you're using a lot, like I'm really worried. So I briefly went sober a little bit, then fell off of the bandwagon and went into that five-day meeting that toxic guy. But to be honest, I think everything happens for a reason, and that was that was an uh the lowest point of my life which made me change and evolve into my next with the next chapter of my life.

SPEAKER_00

It's such an interesting point that you say hairdressing almost facilitates addiction in that it's so social. Like I remember as a kid, if you wanted to score, you would go to the local town manchester,

Mental wellbeing, creativity and authenticity.

SPEAKER_00

you know, it was such part of the world we grew up in, and I think it's really changed, or it's well, it's definitely changed for me as a 50, 48-year-old woman. I'm not sort of nobody invites me anymore, but you know, like that sort of idea, and also that's where when you've worked really hard, and if you there's two things, and I'm not articulating myself particularly well about what you said a that you can be quite obsessive. I think because of that, that's what makes you very good with creative colour, wig work, all those sorts of things. That's the side of your personality that's probably sword, it is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

There's benefits to it, but then there's also like cons to it.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. And the idea that almost like our our friendships are are made around who takes the same drugs and that sort of thing, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I've like I mean my friendship group has stayed the same and I still go out with them, but it's a different experience for me. The night finishes earlier, um it's a lot cheaper. It's a hell of a lot cheaper when you're just on like tap water or sparkling water all night. It's like because I'm like, I'm not gonna have like a red ball and have like extra sugar or like anything like that, so I'll just stick to the sparkling water. So it ends up being yeah, massively cheap early uh night, and then I just get up and go to the gym in the morning.

SPEAKER_00

There was a picture that you posted on Instagram, and I think it was one of the first nights you were sober. You were in drag, and it was just uh it made me really happy, Brad. It was so joyous.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I did drag for Halloween uh just gone, and it was I've done it before, but I'd never really I'd always been like a bit alien drag, like so it'd always been a bit alien, cheapy, kind of not cosplay, but crafty. And this was a little bit more like the fantasy. It was still Halloween-y, so it was Hex Me Baby one more time. So it was like Brittany meets the craft, um schoolgirl, possessed demon schoolgirl kind of thing. And yeah, I absolutely loved it. Like being sober and every ounce of me wanted a shot to like knock back to like take the edge off, but just going, I had to keep reminding myself because people staring, and I'd get like really sort of like insecure, and then I'd be like, they don't know who I am. Like, I don't look like Brad, I look like this demonic schoolgirl, so I can be whoever I want to be.

SPEAKER_00

So at that point, I kind of relaxed into it a bit more, and I think that's quite good advice because friends of mine who are in recovery or like that's hard, isn't it? Going out is hard. Have you got any advice for that schoolgirl outfit on the door?

SPEAKER_01

A breastplate, a wig, and some schoolgirl high heels. No, I think the the thing that I have really held on to, I was listening to a podcast, it gave like a sort of a situation of like a kid. When a kid goes into like a school hall or a hall for a birthday party, they cling on to their mum, they're like super nervous, they're like they don't want to interact, they're like really shy, but by the end of it, you have to drag them out because they just don't want to leave. And they do all of that sober. So when I go into these situations, I have to keep reminding myself it's just like everyone is everyone experiences this this social anxiety, and given time, you're gonna have to drag me out of there. Like, I won't want to leave. So I have to keep that reminding myself of that little situation that everyone's feeling this, everyone wants to take the edge off, but once you integrate into the situation, naturally you're gonna become more embedded into it and more comfortable with the situation. It's just that I find it hard getting ready. Like the getting ready to go out would be where the music went on, the prosecco popped, the plate would come out, the bag would come out. So that's where my once I get through that, I know I'll be fine. I guess like must muscle memory, like it's what I've learned in the past. It was that getting ready, having the cocktails. Once that's over and done with, and I'm at the the venue, I feel fine. But I feel like, yeah, just take a deep breath. Everyone's feeling what you're feeling. I think another there was another podcast where it was talking about being in your head, and I was on the tube and I was listening to it, and I looked around and I realised everybody else was in the carriage was in their own little head, their own little dialogue was going on. So I think once you realise that dialogue that's going through your head isn't just you, everyone experiences it, it becomes like a bit easier.

SPEAKER_00

It's probably quite a good metaphor for loads of situations because I think I met you doing colour for Paul Hanlon, and it would be backstage, there'd be a lot of characters, a lot of personalities in just the hair team, and then you've got the styling team, the art direction team, the design team, the creative direction team, makeup nails. And that's sort of that's quite interesting. That saying of everybody's got that dialogue in their head. It probably will be quite beneficial for for every for every situation.

Reflections on purpose, success and advice for the next generation.

SPEAKER_01

Do you want I think it's beneficial just in life to realise that that dialogue that's going through your mind, that ego, that self-destructor, that overthinker, everyone has that. It's not just you. Once I realise that, and I kind of because you know, like sometimes that inner dialogue can just get so loud that I feel it was only me, I feel like I'm going crazy. And once you realise everyone's dealing with that, it's like okay, I can breathe. They real they they've got empathy for it, they've got empathy for it. Like everyone's experiencing that same chaotic inner dialogue.

SPEAKER_00

It's a good, it's a good point on the back of that to ask um, do you have a life work motto?

SPEAKER_01

So not necessarily work, but I guess life in general. The motto that has been quite prominent for me recently is this two shall pass. Because like I even like with like anxiety with work, it eventually it's all gonna like pass. Like, I get really in my head, I get nervous. Even coming here today, I kind of like got in my head, I was like, got here early, had a coffee, was like reading the questions, was like building it up, and I was like, just enjoy it. Like, this time is gonna pass, like it it is one of my my go-to's this two shall pass. I think it mainly kind of came in COVID, and it was just the anxiety the wave of anxiety. So now, even though it's not necessarily to do with anxiety, it could be anything in my life, like eventually it's gonna settle, it's gonna pass. And another one is comparison is the thief of joy.

SPEAKER_00

Because I yeah, that's a good one in the Instagram generation.

SPEAKER_01

Because I'm a massive like I'll look at people's TikToks or Instagrams, and I'm like, why don't I have the likes? Why don't I have the followers? Why don't like why is the jobs not? And it's like actually, like, if I keep comparing myself to other people, I'm not living not living me. So yeah, this two shall pass, and comparison is the thief of joy. Stop comparing yourself and just live in your true, like your true authentic form.

SPEAKER_00

It's interesting you say that. That's part of the reason I'm doing the platform because I think I agree with you that comparison, why have they got that job? Why haven't I not got it? Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. And actually, I sort of again it's probably COVID and probably coming back out and curbing the ego a little bit, but it's like I'm surrounded by amazing people that have never asked questions about their craft. Yeah, yeah. We all have the same craft and approach it slightly differently. How are we ever gonna move hairdressing and hair colour forward unless the colourists and the creatives and the people who work behind the chair every day join together and make it like a better place for us all, you know?

SPEAKER_01

I know it sounds a bit utopian, but I feel it is, it's like it there can be that cutthroat community where it's like you don't want to share secrets or you don't want to like yeah, people are looking out for themselves, and I think we do need to stop comparing ourselves to others and just live like my my approach to colour is completely different to your approach, and I think it's good to like share that. Like share, I'm very messy, freehand, and you probably you probably remember colour going everywhere. Um I could be quite chaotic, but I've got like hair friends that are chill and zen, and like we could all do with like learning a bit of each other's craft.

SPEAKER_00

You must have loads of good behind the scenes stories.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, there are loads, but I don't know if I can share any of them.

SPEAKER_00

Nobody can share them.

SPEAKER_01

I've sworn to secrecy.

SPEAKER_00

Okay, okay. Oh, go on, just tell us what it was like the first time you met um Michelle Fassage.

SPEAKER_01

I mean, again, I was I I'm just I'm kind of I get really nervous with anybody. Like Michelle, I was nervous because I'd been watching her and she was like iconic for me being a drag race fan and being in that community. So once I kind of got to meet once I did that like fangirl thing where I was like, okay, like doing all of like the drag racisms, like oh like like I found myself like falling into that gay like um caricature of myself and I had to like claw it back and be a bit more cooler. Um but I get nervous with every like I think the most nervous one that I've ever had was Jared Leto for the Gucci guilty fragrance campaign because his people told us that we weren't allowed to touch him, and I'm like, how am I supposed to touch how am I supposed to colour your hair if I can't touch you? Oh my god, how am I gonna so I did sit in my like hotel room just like freaking out for like a good 45 minutes before I had to like pull it all together and be like, I've got this.

SPEAKER_00

Where do you see the industry going? Where do you see hair?

SPEAKER_01

I mean, I'm absolutely loving at the minute that that kind of clean girl aesthetic is on the way out. I'm loving all the stripes, I'm loving all the graphic, like bleached in chaos. I live for that. That's like I love doing sort of the clean um balayage, like very Victoria's Secret expensive balayage, but I'm here for like a bit of chaos. So, like those stripes and all of that. I'm hoping that the aesthetic is going a little bit more grungy, back to that grungy look. Salon vibes, that mechanical minimal waist. I love that. Like, I am a bit old school, I love a scales and I love like squeezing my tube out and like flattening a tube with the back of my tint brush. I'm a bit old school like that, but I'm here for like the new wave. The it it does need to the the colour wall needs to be modernised slightly. It's like it's it is a bit dated, so I can see it heading that sort of becoming more technical as opposed to like manual.

SPEAKER_00

And tell me moving forward, what's your position in here? Are you talking about maybe getting back into more sessions?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, definitely some hair colour, definitely some session work, definitely more hair systems, and yeah, maybe some other things like I've started doing some wigs for Michel Vazage, so a few wigs that I'd uh imported, custom coloured, so maybe some more wig work down the line. In five years' time, I'd like to actually have my own hair system maybe product line.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, fab, darling.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so maybe yeah, a product range, uh a few more celebrities under my bow.

SPEAKER_00

Watch this first. It's exciting. And I guess sort of coming a bit more towards the end, where any advice for a young brad or uh somebody starting out in hair?

SPEAKER_01

I think, yeah, I think like go with your gut. Like, definitely the hair industry isn't for the faint-hearted. You have to be willing, like, so I I was at college doing plumbing, and then I came out, left plumbing, and went back to college to do like information communication technology. I wanted to like, yeah, go into like the business, I guess, development. But at the same time, I hated sitting behind a computer, I hated feeling restricted. So I fell into hairdressing really just because it was something I wanted to try and I absolutely loved it. But you need dedication, you need to be really, you need to have tough skin, you will get shouted at behind the scenes, and then you have to go onto the shop floor and just be like water off a duck's back. I think people feel like you do bad at your GCSEs, you go and be a hairdresser because it's easy, it's not, it's tough. You've got to have thick skin, you've got to be determined, you've got to be willing to go the extra mile as well. At the end of the day, client satisfaction is the ultimate. So if you if you're blow drying and you see a bit is off, go back to the basin, retone it. Don't try to blow dry it over. Like you've just got to have all of those qualities.

SPEAKER_00

Thank you. And what do you think hairdressing has given you? And what has it taken away?

SPEAKER_01

What it's taken away and given me, so it's flipped, it's taken my hair and it's given me hair. Yeah, I went like bald through the stress of hairdressing, I think. But also now I wear hair systems, so it's taken my hair and given me hair. Um, but it mainly on top of that, it's given me a sense of purpose, um, it's given me a career, it's given me a skill set that is AI is never gonna be able to take over. It's given me, yeah, like it's given, yeah, it's given me a career and a platform for the rest of my life.

SPEAKER_00

Fabulous. Well, Brad Baker, I've really enjoyed that. Thanks for watching.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's lovely to catch up after all this time.

SPEAKER_00

Really lovely. Thank you.

SPEAKER_01

No worries. Lovely to be here.